Forum:System discussion
So, this is a page for discussing a system basics. I'll post our talk with jolinaxas we had on Spoony Experiment forums: jolinaxas: "Ok, so I'm taking a look at the wiki. As there are only a few pages up, I'll go over all of the ones I'm seeing here. Also, keep in mind that not a whole lot seems to be fleshed out, so If any of my logical leaps are off, let me know. And most importantly, this is your game, not mine. Attributes: So, you seem to have a 7-stat lineup here. (STR, CON, AGI, CHA, INT, PER, WIL). So the balance seems to be towards so-called "mental" statistics. As far as comparisons go, the Fallout series has a similar seven-stat lineup. (Str, Per, Endurance, Cha, Int, Agi, Luck), but each installment of the series has had several balance issues in regard to these seven statistics (it's almost rote, for example, to maximize Int in any Fallout game, because it is the source of skill points, which matter more as far as accuracy and proficiency than they really should). Keeping that many balanced will be a chore, especially since perception and especially willpower are kind of esoteric, and (in most cases) are derived statistics, basic race-modified saves, or skills rather than "main" stats. As an aside, I like carry weight being based off of constitution. One doesn't see that too often, even though it makes more sense. Also, under charisma there's a non-link about an appearance score. Are you intending to derive that statistic from charisma, or keep it separate to allow for Cyrano de Bergerac (smooth talking, but ugly) type characters? Also, while this isn't very clear, since there isn't an article on it, but the "CP" system - is that a sort of gradual development system (like, say, Vampire the Masquerade, which eschews levels and you gain skills and resources gradually), or after gaining, for example, 20 CP, do you "level up" and get bonuses to "baseline" statistics, with some additional choices (like Dungeons and Dragons) I know that the one creature I saw (the Avank) has a level, but don't see many other references to it. Creatures So, there's not much I can see here besides the Avank, and a list of attributes common to a "class" of creatures (watery things swim fast, constructs have no need to sustain themselves, etc). The archetypes are well done. The avank is either very unbalanced, or is a very high-level creature, judging by its statistics (similar to, say, a tarrasque). It has Str and Con scores well over 20 (which is the human limit, and four times the human average), but has an agility of four (which, according to the Physical action points page, makes it unable to grapple, which is one of its perks.) My suggestion on this front is to have less stat inflation, and allow bonuses and other statistics to determine "strength" of a creature, in terms of how difficult an enemy it is. Things with may exist with 50 str, but as that's ten times the human average, it's hard to balance in terms of a party of adventurers, especially when it may derive several other things from that 50 str. Hit Points/Mana Points The hit points seem solid. The mana points article is a bit unclear on how mana points are used, but it seems that they act as a sort of inhibitor, much like old D&D did with Vancian magic (the "prepare these spells" method), and 4th edition does completely with encounter/daily powers, in order to balance magic use compared to physical skills. Physical Action Points This system seems very Fallout-esque, and it appears to suffer from similar balance issues. Since agility is the sole determiner of the amount of PAP you have, it becomes the end-all, be-all in terms of tactical combat, and the AP costs of important things on the list will become "hot spots" for how much AGI a character should have. ("IE, I want to be able to get up in one turn, so my character needs to have 6 agi, so I have 6 pap, so I can get up)Also, without some sort of compensating effect, it makes rogues much more effective than warriors/fighters, since their attack statistic also allows them combat flexibility. Also, I'm not sure what your particular goal with this game is, so if you'd let me know in a reply what that is, that'd be appreciated. Things like balance, similarity to other games, and overall desired "feel" are very different, depending on whether you'd like to pitch this to a company, or whether you'd just like to play it around your own table, or perhaps designing this as an exercise (I've done several such projects)" Unfortunately, I forgot to save my reply to him in my outbox, so at this point I'm just waiting for him to upload it here. ---- Ask, and ye shall recieve. On a side note, that whole "not saving your outgoing messages unless you ask it to" thing is annoying -_-. -Axe 1. Yes, mental attributes, or, more importantly, INT is probably the main attribute in the system. So that's why I'm thinking about it being the most expensive one to buy. Even then, it doesn't influence the number of skill points, or any points, for that mater, except knowledge points, but they are only the source of in-game lore and aren't very useful gameplay-wise. And I know that this wouldn't be easy, but then again, if I wanted to create an easy system... I wouldn't because there tons of them are already. '' ''2. About carrying weight. It did make sense to e too, but now I think the more logical thing would be to do this: what you can lift depends on STR, how long can you do it - on CON. So maybe you're not the strongest man on Earth and you can't lift a 200 pounds backpack full with gold, but you can go without stopping for rest while carrying your not-so-heavy backpack for an entire day. Something like this. It will be based on not yet well thought Fatigue. '' ''3. Appearance is not depending on CHA, yes. '' ''4. Ever played GURPS? VtM, I think, was based on GURPS, so I guess it utilizes the same not-leveled system. The level of Avank is now obsolete, I started this wiki and then decided to give up on the level system and implement a more logical point-based one. '' ''5. Human average statistic is not ten, but five. '' ''6. Avank is high-level boss monster, so yeah, like tarrasque. Anyway, as I've said before, I've created its (and pretty much every other monster I have on my local copy) stats before deciding to change the basic level system, so there may be some changes to it. Also, its stats were based on literally how strong it was supposed to be - what weight it could pull (as in the legend) etc. '' ''7. I'll get back to mana points after I'll explain the spell system. '' ''8. Yes, the AGI is the second main attribute aka the most important physical attribute, So it will cost a lot more too. '' ''9. As of goals, everybody I've asked agreed that the setting is undersaturated, the system has some potential and some ideas are creative and interesting. So I hope if I'll complete it it may become something like VotM - a favorite system for that exact kind of game. Also, I plan on doing a videogame based on it, I know, unrealistic goals, but I can do a simple one on my own and maybe it'll catch up enough to let me find some help. By the way, that's why some of the formulaes and parameters are seemingly hard for a table game - even for a non-videogame version I think the program for most of the stuff will be a almost-must-have, seeing how everybody now has PCs and/or notebooks to run it. ---- Okay, so do you have any other questions for now? ----------------------------- So, do you get notifications if I edit thi page?